I really don’t care if I never see another pedo story listed. Especially because I don’t read short stories, and most pedo stories are in that category.

But I really, really don’t want to opt-out and miss an otherwise good, 500k long story, just because in one chapter there is a rape of a 11 year old, that is essencial to the storyline.

What I’m saying is only the pedo oriented stories should be included in the opt-out option, not everyting that contains such material.

If you do a web search for adult sex stories, liter**.com is first and ASSTR is second, while storiesonline.net doesn’t even appear on the first two pages in Google. With the exception of ASSTR, and this one, all of the sites I surveyed were simply fronts for paid porn of various types. Liter**.com has a ton of stories and a quick survey indicated, at least for me, a far lower quality than is found here. In addition, fonts and reading space are both restricted in favor of paid advertising.

So my question is, where are the ones leaving going to go? As a side issue, why don’t you show up higher on Google’s listing?

I have been around since Usenet days and in fact kept the Alt Sex Stories FAQ alive and rewrote it after the original author bowed out. I have seen category issues any number of times. On Usenet, ASS splintered into a bunch of subcategories with cross postings and the usual heated discussions. Yet ASS continued to dominate story posts and reader numbers by far.

From my experience, pedo stories are the most contentious, by far. And for good reason, mostly of a medical nature up to and including permanent damage to the apparatus of one or both of the participants, depending on their age and overall physical development. And of course, the protection of our children from harm.

The problem is how to define pedo. Is it anything under the age of 18 as you will find on those sites which are thinly disguised fronts for paid pornography? Is hebefilia to be included? Everyone has an opinion on the subject. And every locality has a different legal definition. For example, the age of consent in Japan is 13 (was 12), but each locality has variances. In the UK or Australia, writing or reading material about underage sex (18?) can get you in serious trouble, if caught.

With the demise of a pedo collection on ASSTR, Kristen was flooded with submissions in that category. This site seems to have attracted a similar uptick in submissions. So long as you allow pedo postings, there is little or nothing you can do about the quantity of submissions unless you artificially limit the number you will post on any given day.

The real problem with an initial screening for pedo stories is that you will attract attention to the fact that you have that category on your site. Perhaps even unwanted attention. In my opinion, the only way to avoid that is to include a number of categories that a large number of those who haven’t figured out they can use their own filter wouldn’t want to read.

This won’t stop the self righteous who will badger you or threaten economic harm (or even legal difficulties) unless you stop allowing [insert category].

I also suggest that you do this as a one time thing for non-paid members. In addition, I suggest you have a complaint flag on each story for those who would quibble with the category listing. It might be a bit of work initially to sort through the complaints, but it would eventually subside as authors caught on that a story of theirs would be in suspension until they corrected the listing. Yes, I would volunteer to help screen complaints.

I do suggest that you define pedophilia as: a story where one or more participants engaging in sexual activity are below the age of twelve. Hebefilia would be a category where one or more of the sexual participants are between the age of 12 and 17.

Larry

It would be interesting to know if the departing members were leaving because of fear of potential legal sanctions if “Pedo” material is found on their computers, or if it is the squick factor. Another factor could be a quasi-legal one in that many employers are scrutinizing downloads by employees on company equipment. You could extend that logic to home computers subject to a spouse checking the contents out.

Economics could be another factor. In today’s economy many people are cutting back wherever they can on non-essential items. As an owner of a retail store I can attest to that. Many times a customer will decline to buy something but won’t say “I can’t afford it.” They imply, instead, that they would buy something except that there is something wrong with the product. In my store’s case it might be “color” or “fit” or “fabric” or “Made in China”. The real reason is that they don’t want to spend the money. The same customer will often buy the exact thing later when it is marked down.

I think that the solution to the problem rests with the reason for loss. Making changes to the site that don’t address the root cause have the potential for more harm than good.

AW

A few minutes ago I manually scanned the first 100 stories in the “New Stories” list with respect to their codes and descriptions. There were 3 stories with the “Pedo” code and 41 stories without that code but had underage sex contained in the story. Most had the lower-case “m” or “f” or “gi” codes, but some did not. Most of the 41 involved teenagers, not pre-pubescent children.

It is certainly not a scientific study, but there are a number of points to discuss.

1. In this random sample 44% of the stories contain underage sex. That’s a big percentage. We should ask ourselves why we are hung up on this subject.

2. Is the lower-case “m” or “f” enough to note underage sex? Maybe, but I don’t think so. What would an author use? There is nothing else available to denote sex between adolescents who are underage, but not young enough to get the Pedo tag. Perhaps a review of the Tags system would be advisable.

3. There were a few stories that appear to contain underage sex but the capital M or F was used. Something should be done about that.

4. There are some tags that could be vague to a casual user. “Lolita” comes to mind. What is that supposed to mean? I know because I’m an author and have reviewed the Tags System. A casual user might not do that, or even know that a list of definitions exists.

5. Some stories have so many tags that it is hard to see the forest for the trees. Many tags are intended to attract readers (eg “SciFi), rather than as squick warnings. I feel that it is unfair the reader to lump these two kinds of tags together. I would also suggest that the “MF” and “cons” codes could be assumed if not tagged otherwise. That could get rid of a lot of clutter.

So there are more questions than answers.

AW

I agree with comments about using Administration tools to block certain stories, maybe placing this on the sign up and/or welcome page to remind people these exist.

What ever your choose, it is your choice as this is your site. I wish you the best.

I have been a paid member for more than 10 years. I pay because I enjoy the stories and because I want the site to remain for the enjoyment of others. I have noted the increase in pure/extreme PD stories with concern. The site is losing members. The bigger long term problem is the site will lose authors who are unwilling to associate themselves with this kind of content. I avoid/don’t read stories with prepubescent children. I don’t like violent non consent and rape stories. There are no easy answers. I enjoyed Gena Marie’s early stories about young people growing up (and I still like her stories even without the overt sex). John Wales’ stories are si-fi with alternate life styles. There is a descriptive MM rape scene in ‘Dance of a Lifetime’ but is not treated erotically. How to draw the line that allows these types of stories but excludes others is damn near impossible. From a personal prospective, anything prepubescent can go. Even if you like that kind of thing, you’re just asking for legal problems and I would hate to see the site shutdown because of it. It is not just the law that could force the site to close, the loss of readers and authors that won’t associate themselves with that kind of content can also kill the site. If I don’t have anything to read (authors have quit; I don’t read pedro stories) and I have to start worrying about legal problems then I will have to cancel my paid subscription and exit the site for good. I am not yet ready to throw in the towel but if there is not a sharp bend in the curve back the other way then I will not have any other choice.

I also agree that this type of content can damage a site’s reputation and is it possible that it could also have legal ramifications on the site owner, especially where it is a pay site.

This is probably about the best approach that can be achieved, as it puts the responsibility on the author to properly tag their story; and on the reader to steer clear of personally offensive content. Endless squabbling won’t solve the author/tagging issues, except authors might be “educated” through feedback to be more conscientious about tags.

The “pedo” uproar reminds me of the hypocritical anti-smut attitudes prevalent in the U.S. It’s okay if the young lady is eviscerated in a slasher film; just don’t show her breasts while she’s being chopped up. Extreme violence, snuff, rape, bigoted racial stereotypes (black men raping white girls), and other inhuman content draws virtually no objection I’ve heard on SOL, while the underage complaint seems to overshadow all other issues.

I rely on coding so I can avoid snuff, rape, and extreme violence. Others may wish to avoid pedo, gay, and bestiality. To each their own. If we begin censoring or segregating, we might as well pack it in and turn off the servers.

Gray

Sadly, apart from yet more codes, and strict enforcement of code assignment, I cannot think of an answer. However banning all under-18 sex would seriously detract from the appeal of the site.

If I were to come fresh to this site and looked at the first 100 new stories, I’d not bother signing up. There are 6 marked pedo and another couple that based on the description should have been marked pedo. Around 10% of the new stories are pedo! Just under 50% of the stories code for underage sex. There’s a big difference between underage (post pubescent) and pedo, but the picture presented is not something I want to be associated with.

My guess is members who are voting with their feet because of those erotic stories don’t wish to be associated with a site that carries that type of content (appearance of wrongdoing, guilt by association, moral grounds, etc.). Further, I think the higher the volume of content, the younger the age(s) of the minor(s) portrayed and the more violent the story is; the worse those stories, the SOL site and their association with it, are viewed by those members.

In my opinion, as a free membership holder, I think that if paying members, especially, are voting with their feet against adult/minor erotic content, then regarding the bottom line, alone, the choice seems clear. If legal action, even in Canada where sexual attitudes are more relaxed than in America, is a real possibility, then the choice seems crystal.

Idealism is a fine, noble thing; but, unfortunately, it doesn’t always help pay the bills. If you decide to go the way of the rest of them, I suppose one consolation is that there is still ASSTR.

So Lazeez what ever you decide I am sure that many of use will gladly support you and if we can help let us know.

Censorship should be a personal decision by the member.
You will have to depend on members to keep you informed. Perhaps by adding an entry in the rating system for compliance with the category system

For the exclusion list check your account!

If the issue can be stated that SOL is losing members because of increasing pedo content, and we can assume that anyone willing and able to pay for membership has a vested interest in understanding story codes and site functionality, then the tools in place to inform and assist members must be a non-issue. The problem seems to be that a certain portion of the membership believes the proliferation of pedo fiction is a problem and solutions which do not directly reverse that situation are not viable.

The logical question to be asked by Lazeez is whether or not a compromise can be reached with those members as individuals, assuming they haven’t banded together to form a lobby. The onus is on site management to dialogue with any member who has a complaint. If the owner’s stance is to allow pedo content and the member is determined to boycott any site which offers it…That’s the gap and the service provider bears the burden of finding an acceptable solution, not the customer.

We may suggest actions to identify, segregate, or otherwise restrict/inform readers with regard to pedo content, but that doesn’t address the source problem. The very existence of pedo materials on SOL is detrimental to business and unless a compromise on that issue can be reached, Lazeez will have to decide whether or not to concede the point and accept self-censorship. How much business will he lose if SOL continues to offer pedo fiction? How many paying members will he gain? How will the site’s reputation be affected and what impact will that have on future membership?

These are questions only he can answer and perhaps Lazeez is looking for moral support and getting it, I think, but in the end I honestlly fail to see where any compromise solution will be reached. Persons who feel strongly enough about a subject tend to stick to their guns out of pride, if not principle. I sympathize with Lazeez and hope that the best decision for his site will coincide with my own desires, and whatever happens I’ll continue to support what he’s built so long as I’m able.

I guess I’m not only here for the tquila after all.
rache

Giving non-members access the reading preference selection would be a good idea. Actually, if a new member had to select exclusions when the signed up would make members more aware that they could select exclusions. Perhaps having them revisit the page on their 10th visit would be a good idea as well.

One issue I have with the story codes is that they are a single tier. To me this is misleading If a story code applies to only one short scene (3 pages or less) in a large story it should not have the same weight as MFFF interaction that occurs though out the story. I know of at least one story that has snuff in the codes due to one short scene (a page or 2) in some 1500 pages.

Because of this lack of differentiation, I sometimes do what i do in the book store and read sinipets before reading the whole story.

Personally I avoid reading about sexual interaction involving preteens for many reasons.

I have no interest in pedo stories – however, there have been a number of very good stories I’ve read at SOL that involve children (or at least minors) in some way. How would your ‘opt-in/out’ system impact the ability to view these? For me, I’d tend to draw the line at puberty. Sex with pre-pubescents will put me off instantly. However, even though I seem to notice more pedo stories lately, I can easily avoid them if tagged properly, and I wouldn’t leave the site because of this. I also wouldn’t mind if there were none here, either.

You have a tough choice, Lazeez, and I don’t envy you. You should know I believe you do a pretty good job, and I’ll support whatever you decide. Perhaps a ‘pedo page’, where all those stories would appear instead of being listed on the main site pages, so the more delicate sensibilities wouldn’t even have to be exposed to the decision.

The World has tooooooooooooo many rules.

Codes may be used, but the (sometimes) very descriptive mention of young children in the plot line is becoming disturbing. And yes – these stories are not my cup of tea.

The problem is, as already alluded to, with the world’s interest in stopping peodophiles, just the descriptions is starting to make it appear that SOL readers are interested in this type of story. Whilst we can elect to read or not to read them, the fact is we have already downloaded a description of young, possibly underage sexual stories and even this could be enough to ‘convict’ the most innocent of reader if your countries law enforcement wants to pursue it.

I have to admit I am starting to look elsewhere for stories because of the number of underage stories starting to appear.

People can shout ‘freedom of speech’ until the cows come home, but that so-called ‘freedom’ is a two edged sword. Yes – you have the right to read that type of material if you want – the other side (which is conveniently forgotten by those that scream about freedom of speech) is that the owners of a site can also exercise their freedom of speech by denying them the space on their servers.

We, as readers, have no way of blocking out these stories – as has been pointed out, the codes are not always accurate. For example – these are the codes for Rebirth by John Wales:
Codes: mf mF ff Ff TimeTr rom cons inc mother sis
Now I know some will say mf indicates underage age or something similar – but, when I cut those codes I went looking for a page on SOL that explained them. Guess what? There isn’t one (at least not readily available) so what DO these codes really mean then? In this story (Rebirth) the ‘hero’ is a12 year old boy – there is no way this can be described in any other way than ‘underage’.

Story codes, and for members, category exclusions, are perfectly good ways of protecting someone from something they do not wish to see. Story codes are given on all stories, and if you’re a member, you can exclude any category of story you don’t wish to see in the random story generator and in searches. I don’t know how feasible, or possible, it is but I guess there is the option of Lazeez putting up a page of “What do you not wish to see?” as the main welcome page to the site so that any non-members coming to the site have the option to exclude those stories that squick them. If this is an option, I say go for it. Whether this will help with the apparent overrun of pedo stories on the site, I don’t know. I would doubt it.

As to the original problem of too much pedo… I’m not sure there is a solution besides sending the offended readers, or offensive writers, off to find another site. What can we do? Shall I and other writers turn our attentions from stories we enjoy writing to something else just so there is a wider variety of stories on the site? Shall we go out and draft more writers who will write a larger variety of stories? Or shall I and others who write pedo simply stop posting as much? Or maybe they would prefer at all?

You can stop them from seeing the stories, that is an option, but I doubt it will end up achieving the desired effect for anyone. When they choose to not see those stories, they will complain of how few new stories are being posted, or how slowly they are being posted. Instead of ten or fifteen new stories, they will get only two or three new stories. This will just cause more complaints. If you stop allowing pedo, those who write pedo, will simply drift away to other sites that do allow it.

I hope you don’t change any thing.

I will describe an underage girl; you know…almost 5’ tall, ninety pounds soaking wet with coltish legs, no hips, breasts that are only a couple of months old. But I will simply say that she is small for her age…which would be eighteen. Then the young fictitious female can do any number of decadent, depraved and despicable acts and no one gets squicked.

Seriously though once you start sliding down the slippery, siliconed slope of censorship, where does it end?

If you don’t like what’s in the codes, don’t read the story! Pretty simple, really.

Here’s the problem. There ARE authors out there who don’t put in ALL the story codes needed for their stories. And I agree with what others have stated, using “codes will be added as the story progresses” is Bull! Put the codes in from the start.

I hate starting what seems to be a good story and getting hooked on reading it, and then the author throws in some kind of story code material that would have kept me from ever starting the story in the first place. If I wanted to read kind of thing in a story, I would have chosen a story with that in the story codes.

Just make the authors place ALL of the codes for the story in there from the start. Then chastise them as needed if they don’t comply. Up to and including removal from the site if they can’t seem to comply.

Then, if someone doesn’t like the content of a particular story, well, it’s THEIR fault for ignoring the true (and COMPLETE) story codes.

Just my .02 cents, your mileage may vary.

I guess it’s the “fair warning” issue that’s got me concerned right now.

I’m with Ernest Bywater with the suggestion to define the codes more precisely/set a subset of codes for under age 12.

As someone who’s enjoyed getting free porn here for a long, long time, I would appreciate the option of skipping the under-12 stuff, because I really can’t afford a paid subscription right now.

And has also already been said, for me, this is not a matter of First Amendment rights, it’s a matter of you, Lazeez, hearing the sounds of complaints … and eventually, greater silence as folks leave. Then again, if it’s largely the free-riders like me who leave because it’s hard to avoid this stuff, it’s probably no skin off your ass.

I appreciate you opening this discussion and considering options.

I guess the opt out choice is the best solution.

I hope it all works out, not just for my stories but for all the authors and readers here. This is a special place and I’d hate to see it changed or lost.

Okay … so *that’s* not gonna happen.

A short suggestion follows and my rant after that.

Since the paid members are the only ones who have the ability to eliminate content you have at least two choices, Lazeez:

1) make the exclusions option available to all readers;
2) do nothing, possibly get hammered by the vocal minority, lose both authors and readers, and watch your site slowly die.

Here’s a thought Lazeez — depending upon the effect of this and other issues on your wallet why not subsidize free membership with advertising that requires the unpaid readers to click-through ads to justify their level of story access? If they want to read one story per day, they must click-through at least one advertisement completely. Two stories, as many ads, and so on. At least that way you’ll receive some compensation for so much ‘noise’ and the work to manage it.

Notice to Readers: It costs money to manage, maintain, and support this site, and it’s hard to imagine a substantial base of paid members to make all this effort for Lazeez worthwhile. We live in a society where compensation for one’s hard work is considered the norm, and forcing a structure and moral code onto a ‘free’ adult erotic story site should require non-paying members to compensate the owner and administrators for their time, bandwidth, and efforts. Don’t like that idea? Then quit complaining!

It appears a vocal ‘few’ (we truly don’t know who or how many) are yet again telling the rest of the world how to live, including what might be acceptable reading on an adult erotic story site and possibly even what’s bouncing around inside our heads. What’s next, burning books in the streets? That’s been tried in Alexandria, Berlin, Tehran, and other cities, and we’ve lost untold riches from an unbelievable variety of writers and thinkers because an unthinking and narrow-minded mob was offended.

Why is it necessary for a loud and easily offended group of people to force others to their model of artificial and unattainable perfection? That’s how wars are started and why so many people have needlessly died through history.

It’s apparent those who are the most offended don’t know how to use the button on the random stories section or for the paid members to use the exclusions tool. If the issue is receiving automatic mail updates that might contain offensive material, then the readers/recipients might need to consider other options for their entertainment rather than force the rest of the world to fit their limited concept of normalcy. If this is related to the Stories Online discussion group, then that isn’t even part of this site and should be handled over there.

I’m horribly offended by stories of rape, torture, murder, cruelty, scatology, cheating, and forced submission, *BUT* I accept that there are people who enjoy reading fiction about those subjects. Since I choose not to partake I don’t bother venturing into their playground and leave them to craft their immoral adventures to their hearts delight. So long as it’s fiction I’m not going to grab my pitchfork or club and march toward city hall in anger. “To each their own” isn’t just a concept, but something more people should attempt to comprehend as a policy for living in a much larger and more informed society.

To those who believe it’s their right to force others to fit their mold:

- Don’t like congested highways and carbon dioxide emissions from cars? Take the bus or a train, pedal a bike, or walk.
- Don’t like pedophilia, rape, murder, incest, adultery, war, bestiality, homosexuality, and all other manner of sin? Burn the bible and all other religious texts, because they *all* contain parables and passages of such vile and disgusting deeds.
- Don’t like reading horribly perverse fiction on a site that might stir your brain into revolt and cause your body to produce hormones that could cause pleasure? Quit reading fiction on this site, overlook what doesn’t appeal to you, or grow up, but don’t attempt to force others to your skewed idea of morality, because there was only one person in history who was described as perfect and purportedly could walk on water.
- Offended by one ‘squick’ that causes you sleepless nights? What the Hell are you doing on an adult erotic story site to begin with, hypocrite?

I receive nothing for posting pedo story content to this site save for less than 0.05% feedback based on number of downloads and even less worthwhile input than that. Most of the feedback I’ve received has been supportive, primarily because I portray an older/younger relationship as consented and gentle, something that other writers cannot claim. Yes, there are those who feel it necessary to lambaste me about the ages of my fictional characters, but as I’ve stated at the top of my story page everything that I write about is entirely fantasy where no individual of any age was ever involved, PERIOD! For the most part people know to stay away from the fiction I write if they’re offended, because I’ve clearly stated that it’s up to the reader to venture past the summary or story codes and that no pity will be taken on a person who knowingly click past the summary page or screen.

This is rant enough for one person during one day. If people don’t want to read pedo stories then they should steer clear of them. If they don’t like to see Stories Online ‘polluted’ with an increasing rash of immoral content (wait a moment while I roll on the floor and laugh my ass off at the irony), then they should offer something to Lazeez and the authors for the content they do enjoy so Lazeez can afford to cordon the ‘squick’ authors onto an ‘adult’ section of an already adult erotic fiction story site.

What part of ‘adult erotic fiction’ isn’t understood?

Eliston.

People need to do some simple research. The incidence of ‘pedo’ stories on the site is really not that much, comparatively. Here’s a simple fact: there will always be times when there’s a ‘run’ of stories containing some code or another, and it will seem to someone who is squicked by that code that those stories are becoming much more prevalent. It’s an illusion… generated by observer bias, and a few other anomalies. Pedo stories are no more taking over SOL than are gay stories, or cheating stories, or incest stories, or mind control stories, or…

To Laz: If y’all wanna open up story exclusion capability for all accounts, and are interested in creating a ‘review panel’ to determine if stories that have been reported by readers as missing some particular code, I fully support that, and may even be willing to be on such a committee/panel. I don’t support centering out one particular code for special treatment.

Story

This way at least one of us will be truly happy.

* Every second – $3,075.64 is being spent on pornography.

* Every second – 28,258 internet users are viewing pornography.

* Every second – 372 internet users are typing adult search terms into search engines.

* Every 39 minutes: a new pornographic video is being created in the United States.

So who but the small minded Bible thumping people complain?
I don’t. Its fun to read and it hurts NO ONE! Because it IS FICTION!!!

I support the idea of specific filters for all and any ‘taboo’ subject matter. And by ‘taboo’ I mean whatever the reader wishes to determine.

The problem is that story codes or descriptions are already very wearying and cause an awful lot of debate and wheel-spinning. Not all stories with depictions of paedophilia are marked as such — for often good reason, we don’t have a good definition of the area. I believe that sex with kids under (say) 14, is an obvious candidate. But what about the law that shows that 16 is the age of consent, or 18? or 21?

And what about the genre’s that can warp the reality in which the story is set? Android children sex toys, or those stories where adult minds are transferred to young bodies?

The site is a wonderful gift to all of us, and its basic doctrine of non-interference is laudable. There’s almost a similarity to the debate going on with Wikipedia and the setting up of a central ‘committee’ to oversee the edits of its content.
Do something similar with SOL would be a sea-change and would probably destroy the site’s appeal.

It is NOT enough to simply say ‘if you see pedo in the synopsis, don’t read it.’ I am very worried by the notion that anyone who points to me as being engaged in reading porn, can see that I have the stuff on my browser.
I for one, would like a filter in place that I can be sure would stop pedo stories being part of my view of the site. That would require some sort of ability to flag stories I *do* find with questionable material so that they are dropped from my view. The reviews mechanism could also be looked at to expand the ‘intervention’ allowing stories that I would have filtered out by a blanket ban, to be brought to my interest.